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Usually some of our best conversations as a family happen at the dinner table. I suppose that is true for most families. Tonight at dinner, Jennifer informed us that it is “Gay-Straight Alliance Week” at her school. Hmmm. Okay. Specifically, today was “Rainbow Pride Day.” Hmmm. They handed out rainbow ribbons, made announcements about gay acceptance, and some even wore matching t-shirts.
Anyone who knows me knows that I am pretty accepting, and that I try really hard not to judge people just because they are different from me. If you are gay, that is between you, your partner, and your God. It’s not my business. BUT- what is my business is this…
My daughters are not permitted to speak openly about Christianity in their schools. Prayers are outlawed in the educational system, and plays and musical performances in December must be referred to as “HOLIDAY” programs- NEVER a CHRISTMAS program. Christ cannot be proclaimed in our schools, but being gay is celebrated? HELLO?
I won’t go any further on my soapbox- you all know exactly what I am saying… but I think that if we can celebrate RAINBOW PRIDE Day, and we can’t speak the name of Christ, this nation is in a lot bigger trouble than we ever imagined.
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To be honest, I wouldn't want Christ or Christianity taught/celebrated in school. Just like I don't want Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, or any other religion taugt/celebrated in school.
Even if the individual doing the teaching is a Christian, there are so many different denominations, sects, etc, that I wouldn't want my child to be taught this in public school. I can take my child to church and be taught what I want them to be taught...or I can teach them myself.
As for Gay Acceptance, I am very glad to hear they are teaching that in public schools. You can guarantee that WILL NEVER be taught in the public schools around here, heck they are still mad that the state flag was changed and the Confederate part was removed.
Gay Acceptance is important, because we meet all sorts of people in our lifetime, who are VERY different than we are, but different isn't always a bad thing. I learn a lot more from people who are different than me than I do from people who are very much the same as I am.
Okay, I am done rambling, but I wanted to give kudos to Jennifer's school for openly discussing Gay Acceptance in such a positive light.
alright...here is what I think... if we are going to have Gay PRide Week, we should be at least have the option of having STRAIGHT pride week. If we are going to have Black History Month, we should have White History Month, Italian History Month, Chinese History month, etc. If we are going to HONOR Jewish holidays, we should at least be able to say Merry Christmas.
I am not saying that we shouldn't learn tolerance... but I am saying that we need to learn to be tolerant of ALL people... and the last time I checked, Christians fall under the ALL People category.
Bekah just said, People want us to call our Christmas trees "Holiday trees"... we will start calling Christmas trees "holiday trees" when Jewish people start calling the Menorah their "holiday candles" and when Muslims "fast for the holidays" rather than for Ramadon.
Mmm.... pretty smart kid, if I do say so myself.
Right on. . .I get it. . .
But one of the questions that one could ask, is WHY there is the hesitation at the promotion of Christian beleifs? is it to persecute Christians, or is it because "christians" (quotation marks intentional) have been guilty of a significant amount of persecution over the past two millenia?
I think that the history of of "christianity" is enough to warrant handling the promotion of that faith with kid gloves.
however, I am ALL FOR separation of church and state. . .I think the world would be a MUCH better place if that separation was a worldwide axiom.
I DO however, think that there is significance in celebrating diversity. . .in a primarily WASP community, is there any diversity with other WASPs? What is there to celebrate in that regard? It sounds like a "Rainbow Day", or any other celebration of diversity or minority groups, is a significant gesture to say "look, we KNOW we are all WASPs. . lets take some time to learn about what YOU think, feel, and believe."
I think that it should behoove the dominant force in a culture (which White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestants are) to take some time out to recognize those groups which are NOT.
I mean REALLY, what does a Fundamentalist Christian have to complain about under the Bush administration anyway?
I have never heard of anyone calling a Christmas tree a Holiday tree. Even my Jewish friend in h.s. whose family celebrated "Santa Claus" called their tree a "Christmas tree."
Living in St. Louis, which is predominately Catholic, I never have had any problems with Christian beliefs or their expression.
In the United States, there is no reason to celebrate "straight pride" or "white history month." Almost everything taught is about straight, white people.
I am all for diversity. That is not the issue for me. Again, let me state that the issue for me is that there is a clear discrimination against straight white people. ALL DISCRIMINATION and PREJUDICE is wrong. To allow GAY pride week and not allow STRAIGHT pride week is discrimination. It is also discrimination to have Miss Black America, Black History month, or any other activity that excludes anyone based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion. it is just wrong. What if we had a Miss White America (allowing no african americans, asian americans, etc.?) CAN YOU SAY SUPREME COURT?
If you are a citizen of the United States of America, you are an American. It doesnt matter what color, religion, race or whatever you are. I get so tired of hearing about discrimination and about how "MINORITIES" are being overlooked, mistreated, or treated differently, when the very nature of programs that they lead (GAY PRIDE WEEK) are discriminatory against those of us who are not like them.
God made us all.
I understand perfectly what you are saying Conni, and in a perfect world, I think you are right.
However, we live in a society where the HOST culture (Christians of European descent) have GREATLY benefitted at the expense of other cultures. . .many times to the obliteration of that culture.
I personally think that a "national day of penance" would be more appropriate, as we, members of the host culture who have benefitted (and still benefit) from the discrimination and oppression of other groups stand up and say "I recognize that I have my way of life at the expense of your ancestors."
Maybe that is what Black History month is really all about.
A "Rainbow Pride day" is obvious in it's intentions. In a day and age where hate crimes agains those of different sexual orientations are still not uncommon, to encourage the acceptance of people can never be a bad thing.
The question is, do those of other sexual orientations, races, cultures, or faiths, still reap the same benefits from our culture that you or I do? Are they treated with the same level of acceptance? I don't think so. Until that happens, shouldn't efforts continue to be made to get our culture to that point?
This is another point that we are just going to have to agree to disagree 3q.
You said that it is time that we stand up and say, "I recognize that I have my way of life at the expense of your ancestors." That statement is true for EVERYONE. We all have the lives that we have today because of our personal histories and the histories of our ancestors and everyone else that ever lived.... people shape history... black, white, jew, greek, christian, or muslim. Yes, SOME white people had black slaves. OK. SOME Christians have been persecuted by non-Christians.
There are good white people and bad white people. There are good black people and bad black people. There are good faithful people, and there are people who claim to know the Lord that CLEARLY do not. The bottom line is this.... EACH PERSON IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OR HER OWN BEHAVIOR. If we go on your rationale that we should admit some wrong-doing (of self or ancestory), then we ALL should be in jail or dead for committing a crime of prejudice or being an accessory to one.
My life is what it is today because of one thing and one thing only- The grace of God. It doesnt have anything to do with what "my ancestors" did or didn't do to others.
Tolerance may be the most misunderstood and abused word in the English language.
As a Christian, I should respect all human beings in the way that God wants me too. Love my neighbor, Love my enemy, Turn the other cheek, etc. but I will reject sin in all its various forms. I am prejudice against sin in my own life and others. I reject sin in my life and in others. I am my brothers keeper despite what others may say.
If tolerance means not speaking out against sin, other people's sin and ecspecially my own, then I am definitely not in that camp.
I am not for diversity or tolerance if it is immoral. Whether people want to believe it or not, what people do behind closed doors DOES end up affecting other people.
Let us be loving but not silent against all forms of sin.
See, THIS is why the celebration of diversity is a wonderful thing. .and the promotion of tolerance is so needed. Since the beleifs that you maintain are not universally accepted, and the standard by which you judge people is accepted on faith, rather than upon provable fact, that makes your beleif valid, but it also makes differing beleifs valid as well.
I think that Conni shows much wisdom when she suggests that we "agree to disagree", because what you define as absolutes of sin and tragression, another person sees as mere opinion.
OUTSTANDING!
The last anonymous comment is exactly the way that I feel.
"I am not for diversity or tolerance if it is immoral. Whether people want to believe it or not, what people do behind closed doors DOES end up affecting other people.
Let us be loving but not silent against all forms of sin."
That sounds pretty Christ-like to me.
It's so funny you would post about this because Karl and I were just talking about it. Particularly the part about Black history month and the Black cable channel, etc. There are so many different cultures here in the U.S. and if you're going to separate one culture from the others to celebrate, i think they should each be celebrated and recognized. HOWEVER, i have had gay people in and out of my life for the past 10 years and although i respect them and care about them, i do not support the lifestyle they live. I will never attend one of their marriages or a gay function because I too am "not for diversity or tolerence if it is immoral". I most definitely would have a huge problem with Gay acceptance being taught at Spencer's school, not because it's teaching him to respect and care about everyone, but because it's celebrating homosexuality. Although homosexuality is not a religion it is against Christian beliefs and just as non-Christians wouldn't want Christianity taught to their children in the public school system, I would not want non-Christian beliefs glorified at my child's school.
Well, again folks, though I respect your beleifs and your right to have them, beliefs are a highly personal thing, and, as I said, are relegated to the subjective realm of opinion. While I disagree strongly with you regarding the things that you may or may not think are sin, I respect your right to have those beliefs.
The Government (i.e. public education system), needs to be very careful in these matters, because legislating morality is outside of their pervue. To create a program which says "Homosexuality is a GOOD thing, you should go and try it" is a very different thing than saying "There are many different people with many different beleifs about sexuality, and it is our responsiblity to refrain from diminiscrating against them."
I think in this situation, it is good to also keep in mind--is treating one's opinion or belief regarding this (or any) issue as an ABSOLUTE (i.e UNIVERSALLY or ABSOLUTELY true: not faith based) when dealing with others a discriminatory act?
Connie, I agree with you and I can see the points of 3q as well. I too get frustrated and often feel "left out of celebrations" because I am a straight white Christian. Our Parade is coming Connie..those golden streets will welcome us with Angels singing. That doesn't take away from frustration here on earth but I am sure looking forward to that parade!!
Here is the deal...
3q, you have made it very clear that you question the very basis of Christianity. I DONT. Sometimes I think that you say things just to get things started.... maybe.... maybe not, but it seems that religion really gets you hot under the collar. I believe I understand why...but I wonderi if you are arguing just for the sake of arguing?
How would you feel if the KKK came into your son's school and started promoting their beliefs in the classroom?
To me, promoting homosexuality in our classrooms is equally wrong.
Julie- I agree 100% with your comment... thanks for sharing.
Jen- You are wise beyond your years and I agree with your comments as well.
God was clear about homosexuality, I dont guess it matters what we think anyway.
o i like that comment aunt conni...god was very clear on what he thinks about homosexuality. so why does this even become an issue?...i think everyone needs to be treated equally...isnt that what this country is founded on? equality? and dont you think GOd wants us to treat others equally dispite what they believe in or what their sexually orientation is? Why is it our place to judge someone when the only judgment that really matters is not made by a person living on this earth. All im saying is that if we can be accepting enough to have GSA in my school shouldent i be able to pray anytime i want, or pull out my bible and read it?
Actually, no not just trying to get things started. . .but i DO try to make people think...
Does Christianity or Religion in general get me hot under the collar? No, not at all. . .
Injustice does.
Members of a dominant group in a culture do not NEED protection to make sure that justice is served. . .they are protected de facto.
White Middle Class American Fundamentalist Christians sometimes tend to present themselves with some sort fo persecution complex, and I am often boggled as to WHY. I guarantee you that White, Middle Class, American fundamentalist Christians are better off economically, socially, and have SIGNIFICANTLY more freedoms and suffer less discrimination than 9o% of the rest of the world.
So what if the school has a "Rainbow Pride" day? If it helps to keep one gay teenager from being victimized (usually at the hands of some White, Middle Class, American Fundamentalist Christian teenager) isn't it worth it?
This is NOT about an attack on Christian beliefs, as many would like to think. this is about the recognition that there are a WHOLE lot of people out there who use their absolutist ways of thinking, manifested in their religious faith, to diminish other people. I would think that would be a GOOD thing, and welcomed by the Christian coummunity.
Currently Reading: "God has a Dream" by Archbishop Desmond Tutu.
3q- as long as there is discrimination against any race, religion, ethnicity, culture, gender, etc. there will be problems in this world, and there will be hate crimes, and all kinds of other terrible things. IT IS ALL WRONG.
I am somewhat confused by your stance, however, because you are preaching that white christian americans need to be discriminated against... and yet in the next breath are preaching against oppression and intolerance.
All discrimination is wrong. Telling my girls that they cannot freely speak the name of Jesus in school is discrimination, and it is illegal and immoral.
This conversation started NOT because of my intolerance for the homosexual lifestyle, but for the intolerance of inconsistancy. That is what this conversation is about.
Right, Conni. . .I understand that. . .
What I think you are misunderstanding in what I am saying is that I am not sure that offering benefits to disadvantaged groups while not providing them for those who recieve advantages naturally is discrimination.
Again, I recognize what you are saying about inconsistency, but at the same time, there already IS inequity and injustice present, and that inequity and injustice favors white, anglo-saxon, protestants. You and I are NATURALLY deferred to in our culture because of the group that we are born into. . we do not NEED someone to make sure that we are not being discriminated against. . .at least not in the same sense that members of other groups do.
AGain, keep in mind that special programs to assist those in minority groups, whether based on religion, heritage, or sexual orientation are not desinged to discriminate against anybody, they are designed to offer advantages that have foremrly been denied to those groups, but are NATURALLY available to members of the dominat group in our culture.
Again, I am not sure how that turns into a disadvantage to anybody.
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