Wow- I just wanted to share my wonderful day (which happened to be Easter Sunday) with all of you. I didn’t expect such judgment and anger. But, since that is the direction that some chose to go, I started wondering if maybe I need to look at things differently. So, this post is directed to the anonymous poster who is against “special Sundays.”
You said,
“but as a Christian, i have a duty to teach my fellow men...so i ask you how am i supposed to teach others if i do not judge whether they are in the wrong or not?”
Thank you for you concern. If the purpose of your comments on this blog is truly to teach, please feel free to continue. I am open and willing to be taught the true meaning of Scripture. I am sure that we could have a great dialogue together and maybe learn from each other. I also have several elders and deacons who visit my blog regularly who I am also sure would be interested in learning, or teaching the “real” truth.
So, please let this post serve as an invitation to you to continue your efforts to teach your fellow man. I will be happy to allow the comments and even create posts from your thoughts and ideas.
Also, I must admit, that I am somewhat confused by your desire to be anonymous. If you are sure of your position, why hide who you are?
"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile." (Romans 1:16)
May God continue to bless us all as we continue to earnestly seek Him and His ways.
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28 comments:
I blogged about this myself. I just want to know where the Bible teaches us to be petty and to nitpick.
I had a wonderful Easter and I am very happy to hear you did also.
i am glad to hear that you are open to study and to discovering the truth in the bible...i did not mean to seem angry or judgmental...my objectives were truly to teach...i will gladly study the bible with you or anyone else, however, i do expect that if we study the bible, we will be using the bible as defense for our standards and not opinion as i have seen done in your blog many times...the bible is after all the only standard for salvation
the reason i am anonymous is because i do not have a blogger account, not becasue i am ashamed of the gospel of Christ as you insinuated...if i had an account, i would have glady posted my comments under my name...
what is stopping you from writing your name in your comment?
Of course you can sign your name like this too.
or like this.
Well, regarldess of who you are, the fact remains, that the fact that the stone was rolled away and Jesus was alive again is a reason for celebration, and is VERY SPECIAL. Why shouldnt we celebrate it?
not all of your commentors sign with their name...some use symbols(3q)...why am i required to? however, for the sake of arguing, my initials are dag and i will use them from now on.
my question now is does my name in any way lessen the weight of the message? why are you concerned more with who i am as opposed to what i said?
dag
I think that the bigger question is why is someone who is so convinced that he/she is right is so afraid to tell his/her identity. Does that mean you are ashamed of the Gospel and your stance?
As far as 3q goes, I know who that is, and the reasoning behind why he chooses to stay anonymous. he contacted my by email and explained it to me and I agreed. Since this is my blog, all that really matters is that I know who 3q is.
I am interested in what you have to say. Please, by all means, share with us. I will tell you, however, that it is hard to take someone seriously who is afraid to tell me who they are.
how can you say i am afraid to tell you who i am? i do not know you nor do you know me....at least not that i know of...i do not put my name out on the internet, i gave you my initials...that should suffice...i am not ashamed of anything, and i have complied with your request that i identify myself from now on...you are correct, it is your blog out out of respect i have complied with your wishes....however, might i remind you that you are posting on the internet, on an unsecured site that anyone can access....you have absolutely no control over what is said or who says it....
as for your comment that it is hard to take someone seriously who does not identify themselves, i have but one question....if my comment would have been in agreeance with yours, would my identity have been an issue? i have read your blog many times and know that if i had agreed, you would not have questioned my identity and i would have been taken seriously...
why the double standard?
sorry i forgot to sign my name to that last one...it was me
dag
Okay DAG-
Do you have something that you would like to teach us or share with the rest of us? If you do, please share. Move past the identity "crisis" and teach what you have ssaid you want to teach.
By the way, I do have the option to control what you say on MY BLOG - I can delete you and I can choose to moderate comments.
If you have something to teach- teach it, if not, please move on. My blog is not a place for you to cause division among believers.
If you want to teach- teach. You are welcome to do it here. If you just want to be divisive, please refrain from commenting here in the future.
you say to teach if i have something to teach...i tried that and was personally attacked by you and your commentors...i was called a hypocrite, a coward, and told quite frankly that i would not be taken seriously unless i gave my name...i meant no disrespect and have tried to make clear that it was never my intention to cause a problem....however, i can see that what i have to say is not and will not be accepted here...
if i disagree with what is said here, it is clear that i will not be heard in spite of the fact that i have always used scripture to defend my stance...
i leave you with two scriptures...
first in response to 3q's questions from your blog yesterday,
"avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. a man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." Titus 3:9-10
and second in response to all who have issued personal attacks,"am i therefore become yourenemy, because i tell you the truth?" Galations 4:16
dag
I cannot and will not speak for 3q. I have never said that you are my enemy, in fact, I have extended a personal invitation to you to study the Scriptures.
"avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. a man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." Titus 3:9-10
That is interesting dag. . .how does that NOT also apply to your condemnation of a special easter service?
That is what I am failing to understand. . .how is it that you are drawing the distinction between the two? The only difference that I see is based on the traditions that most members of the church of Christ were raised with.
Again, your quote from galatians could apply to you as well. . .I am using the SAME standard that you are using to critique a teaching common in the religious world. . .you are interpreting this as an attack. . .i am simply telling you that for you to prohibit one and endorse the other is inconsistent. It is that simple.
Again, you can sit back and claim to be "backed up by scripture all you like" I have quoted scripture to you as well, FWIW. Apparently these things are "pusing vain arguments" while yours are "defending the gospel".
Ok. . .here is the deal. . .the issue is that on yesterday's blog, you condemned thepractice of celebrating a special service as an EASTER service. You claimed that there is NO scriptural authority for such (which there IS, but I will get to that in a second) and therefore the silence of the scriptures indicates that it is wrong to impose such a tradition.
I have made the same claim about the ownership of church porperty. There is NO authority to do so, no first century example, and therefore, using the same standard that you use, it is wrong to do so. So which is it? The hermeneutic with which you are damning damns you as well, my friend.
Now, about the easter celebration: here is a little tidbit for you to chew on from Romans 14:1-8:
1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
Note vs 5 and 6 again " 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord."
I think that before you start damning other people with the Bible. . .telling them how they should and should not worship, you need to make sure you know the Bible yourself. . .the Apostle Paul RIGHT HERE, in black and white, book, chapter, and verse says that it is ok to celebrate special religious holidays if it enhances one's faith.
If there IS that sort of authority in scripture, who the heck are YOU to come here and condemn this fine, Godly, person for the way that she celebrated this special day?
3q
oops. . .i cut verses 5 and 6 instead of copying them. . .thank goodness computing errors won't damn us any more than easter services will
3q
I can say that I have not attacked you and I am sorry you feel attacked. I think 3q is trying to show you some hypocrisy in the way you "seem" to approach the Bible. If you cannot speak where the Bible does not speak, then you are sinning if you do ANYTHING that the Bible does not directly command. Am I correct in this thought?
If that is true then I must assume that ANYONE who attends church in a church-owned building is sinning, 3q is absolutely right on that statement. We are not authorized to meet in church buildings, but the Bible DOES authorize meeting from house to house daily, are you doing that? If not, you are sinning based on your own statements of strict interpretation of the Bible.
Now, I am Catholic, born and raised. Do I agree with what I wrote above? No, not at all, but then again, I don't believe someone is sinning because they use musical instruments in worship. The Bible doesn't authorize instruments, so it is a sin to use them; therefore if the Bible doesn't authorize church buildings it is a sin as well. You can't have it both ways. Either it is all one way or not. If not, then is your interpretation any more or less wrong than mine?
Connie-
I think all of these comments are terrible. the way that I read it, you were just trying to say that you had a wonderful Easter remembering the resurrection of jesus. all of these people who feel the need to judge need to go somewhere else. i am glad that you had a great easter, and i am glad that you are giving all praise to the One who matters the most. keep it up.
Connie, you know what happens when you jump in the pen with the pigs!
:)
DU
DU- point taken.
thanks.
Anonymous wrote at 12:02pm
"The Bible doesn't authorize instruments, so it is a sin to use them;"
Good point, Ummm however, yes it [The Bible] does, in several Old Testament scriptures. In fact, one of the accepted definitions of a "psalm" is a sacred poem read and sung to the accompanyment of instruments.
And ;) let us not forget what happened to King David's wife when she ridiculed and judged David for dancing to the LORD, even though his "attire" would leave anyone to possibly understand why she became so irked at David. But God took great exception to her stance about David's worship and thanksgiving to God. Maybe there is a great lesson for all of us in this. Ya' think?
Conni, this is my first visit prodded by your obvious hurt and discomfort as posted on Mike's blog, so just HAD to come peek in here and see what's going on. Maternal instincts and all that, I suppose. LOL
You're doing a great job. Keep it up and I'm so thankful your worship of God, remembering that Resurrection Day 2000 years ago, was fruitful and joyous.
Hey Kathy, I am Catholic, I love musical instruments in worship, all sorts of musical instruments. Musical instruments enhance the experience for me. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with not using them either, it is just personal preference.
My husband's religious background is the church of Christ and from everything I have learned, the usage of musical instruments, in most congregations is considered sinful as there is no specific command or example in the New Testament.
I hope I have not offended anyone, especially Conni as this is her blog.
I was raised in a very conservative body of believers. As a child I was told that Easter was just like Christmas. . .ie: we don't know FOR SURE that was the day Jesus rose from the grave. It was a reaction to holding one day more holy than another. . .as well as trying to separate ourselves from denominations.
As I grew older and learned about Jews and Passover, I realized that we kinda do know that was the day Jesus rose from the grave because it's the Sunday after Passover, and even though Christians haven't kept up with Passover, we can be assured that Jews have.
That being said, as my own small children were watching an Easter cartoon about Jesus on Saturday morning, they began to ask questions. I took the opportunity to explain more clearly about what Easter means to the rest of the world. . .then I made sure that they understood that even though Easter is a very special day, that God never told us to celebrate it just like he never told us to celebrate Christmas day. What he DID tell us to celebrate is the fact that Jesus died and rose again so that we could live in heaven. . .and he told us WHEN to celebrate it--every first day of the week. That is why their Daddy and I and other baptized believers take communion EVERY Sunday--not just at Easter--not just at Christmas.
I see nothing wrong with explaining days or holidays the world views as holy, as long as we go back to scripture to explain what we believe in light of it. It is an opportunity to explain to others what scripture says. I cannot tell you how many people I have told about Christmas--they just take for granted that it is Jesus' birthday because someone told them it is--even though there is no scriptural standing for it. And though I know that, how can I bash a day that the eyes of the world are turned to Christ? I can't. I won't. I don't. I teach when I can by whatever means I can. And I think that was the last thing Christ told us to do.
Roxanne
Dear Conni,
It was a privilege and honor to sing praises with you Sunday morning. I finally had a chance per your request to read through all the comments on your blog the last two days. My observations are:
1. Years ago we used to come to church on Easter and hear the history of how a pagan holiday was "Christianized" into a special Easter Sunday. After all, what do all those little eggs represent? [Answer: Celebration of fertility cults.] But, even though we would have many guests who might wander into the building at that time of the year, I always cringed thinking what "good news" did they take home with them? Too often the message came across that "We do it right; and, nobody else does". That message turns people off to the kingdom. Yesterday, Dr. John Mark Hicks, delivered a powerful message of the good news. No one who was there could have left that assembly without understanding the core of the proclaimation that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, that he was born in the flesh, lived among us, died on a cross as the atonement for each of our sins, and was resurrected on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. If that day is "special" to some; so be it. If some choose not celebrate it as special, that is o.k. too. But, what is not o.k. is when we begin to judge one another and pronounce who is "scriptural" and who is not. Our unity is based on the Lordship of Jesus Christ and not on any one person's interpretation of scripture. Because we are a priesthood of all believers, every person will stand before God someday to give an accounting of his or her own works. The judgment we give others here and now, will be the judgment meted out to us in the hereinafter. Far better for each of us to err on the side of mercy and grace now, just in case.
2. It is amazing to me the number of people who just love a good "legal" argument. In the past, our heritage used to sponsor debates of our religious leaders and publish manuscripts of the results. When I read those, it becomes so apparent that being "right" means more than being "loved". Jesus taught by asking questions. There is nothing wrong with a good, healthy debate to allow truth to emerge from dialogue. But, woe to those who seek to simply justify their preconceived positions using scripture like a prooftext. For example, Southern antebellum preachers used to justify the institution of slavery from scripture. Yet, how could selling a human being's family ever be considered something that Jesus would do? The point is we need to let scripture speak to us in its context. Our tradition used to state that we "speak where the Bible speaks, and we remain silent where the Bible is silent". That sounds good on the surface; but, when you really work with it, it is a form of legal interpretation. I have found that all scripture is "God-breathed" in that it points to a personality. For us, truth is a personality (revealed in Jesus) rather than an abstract like "2+2=4". For example, we know the Bible proclaims that God is one. Yet, the nature of God is revealed in the trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is like saying "1=3". We call those paradoxes. If any man wants to save his life, he must lose it. The greatest shall be one who serves the most. In the end, none of us are going to be "justified" by our positions on worship, use of instruments, use of buildings or whatever "issue" one wishes to insert into this formula. Instead, we will be saved by faith in the person of Jesus being God incarnate. That faith will lead every true believer into a relationship with the body of the Christ (i.e. the church) where God will use that person to build up his body for good works. By your fruits you shall know them. It is a universal law of the kingdom. Anyone who says he loves God and loves not his neighbor calls God a liar.
3. There are much bigger fish to fry in the struggle of the cause of Christ. But, I guess it beats watching American Idol!
I hope this helps; but, it probably will not.
Grace and Peace,
Bradford L. Stevens
Elder
McKnight Road Church of Christ
brad1125@swbell.net
Hi, Anonymous 7:39pm ;)
I was born, bred and raised in the non-instrumental fellowship. I'm still in the growing up or maturing process in my spiritual journey, even at this advanced age of mine. :)
At this point in my life, and among my earthly enjoyments, am a lover of great music such as that written by Verdi, Bach, et al. There are times that the music being presented in worship to our LORD seems to cry out "please, keep the instruments silent here" and at other times the opposite "Please, bring on the keyboard and guitars to accompany us." My only request and personal preferance is that the instruments accompany, not overwhelm the voices of the worshippers.
As far as the scriptures go, I have yet to find a definite command that our music worship is to be either solo or with instruments. There are two verses that were taught to me as a child as proof texts for no instruments. However, at this point, they seem to me to be teaching us the manner, tone in which God wants us to address each other, which by extension is worship and respect for Him.
Conni, thanks for allowing your visitors to exchange thoughts with each other in addition to commenting on your blogging. You are a gracious lady. :o)
Kathy, Verdi is one we are missing in our collection. We have two toddlers who go to bed every night listening to classical music. My son knows who he is listening to as soon as the music starts.
As far as musical instruments in worship, I was stunned when my husband told me about the non-usage of them in his religious experiences. See, my husband is a musician, so it was very odd to me that he was a member of a church that wouldn't allow him to use his God-given talents during worship. Of course, he does have a beautiful singing voice, so he was able to sing, but it still seemed a shame to me.
Of course, we all look at things through the filters with which we were raised. And I always went to church with progressive music ministries. The organ was used on a rare occasion, we more frequently used the piano as well as other instruments such as horns, strings, guitars, tamborines, etc. Whatever any member was gifted with, they were invited to join and share their talents during Mass.
As this is what I was exposed to, this is what I am most comfortable experiencing. When I moved to another state, I looked for a church that also had that sort of music ministry.
I guess it all comes down to what we are comfortable with during worship. I don't think one way is any more or less right/wrong than any other way as long as the glory is all given to God.
Thank you Kathy for this dialogue, it is very enjoyable for me. Thank you also to Conni for having the forum that is allowing for this exchange.
Brad,
You show the gentleness, wisdom, and patience that is worthy of your office. If there were more elders like the ones at McKinght Rd around, I might have actually stayed a Christian. You honor God with your attitude.
3q
Anonymous 8:05am
I too have enjoyed our exchanges and again thank Conni for indulging us. :o)
I guess what we seem to be saying is that our music worship is a matter of the heart worshipping our King, whether the voice is accompanied by an instrument or not, it is a matter of heart worship of our LORD! Amen?
Gotta run. The rest of this week is impossibly busy.
In the Light of His love, grace and mercy
Kathy
Amen, Kathy. Enjoy your busy week.
Blessings.
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